11/DEC/13

Winter!: Prepare for holiday gaming!

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[Poll] Your point on music genre games.

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Comments: 25
Linked713 said...
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We all know Dance Dance Revolution from Konami. Few know In The Groove which lost in court agaisnt Konami for ripping off the concept. Two years ago, Guitar hero and roc band were on the top of the wishlists and this year we are receiving a new genre of music game called DJHero developped by Activision, creators of Guitar Hero. Nintendo also came with it's own kind of music game called Elite Beat Agents on DS which you had to tap and slide on the screen on a certain timing and follow a song. In japan, you have Daigassou! Band Brothers which is also unique (for DS, not released in UK/US) as you can play a song as different instrument. Your goal in this game is to press different combinations of buttons in order to pull out the right tone of your instrument. To put it simple, you have a music chart and a guideline. You press and/or hold the buttons that hits that guideline.

That's awesome isn't it? Now that we can dance, play drums, sing, play guitar/bass, play as a DJ and maybe others that you know and might want to share, What kind of new product do you think they can bring up on the market for that game genre?
In the Groove

In the Groove (PS2)

Genre/Style: Simulation/Dancing Simulation
Release Date: 07/JUN/05
Guitar Hero

Guitar Hero (PS2)

Genre/Style: Simulation/Musical Instrument/Band Simulation
Release Date: 07/NOV/06
Elite Beat Agents

Elite Beat Agents (DS)

Genre/Style: Simulation/Musical Instrument/Band Simulation
Release Date: 07/NOV/06
In the Groove 2: Dance Bundle

In the Groove 2: Dance Bundle (PS2)

Genre/Style: Simulation/Dancing Simulation
Release Date: 22/AUG/06
Guitar Hero II

Guitar Hero II (X360)

Genre/Style: Simulation/Musical Instrument/Band Simulation
Release Date: 28/OCT/07
Rock Band

Rock Band (PS3)

Genre/Style: Simulation/Musical Instrument/Band Simulation
Release Date: 20/NOV/07
Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock

Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock (PS3)

Genre/Style: Simulation/Musical Instrument/Band Simulation
Release Date: 28/OCT/07
Rock Band 2

Rock Band 2 (PS3)

Genre/Style: Simulation/Musical Instrument/Band Simulation
Release Date: 19/OCT/08
Dance Dance Revolution

Dance Dance Revolution (PS3)

Genre/Style: Simulation/Dancing Simulation
Release Date: 12/JAN/10
Guitar Hero 5

Guitar Hero 5 (PS3)

Genre/Style: Simulation/Musical Instrument/Band Simulation
Release Date: 01/SEP/09
DJ Hero

DJ Hero (PS3)

Genre/Style: Simulation/Musical Instrument/Band Simulation
Release Date: 27/OCT/09
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25
Comments
I kinda feel the Rock Band and Guitar Hero are the Dance Dance Revolution of it's time, remember how popular Dance Dance Revolution used to be?
I like "Frets on Fire" it's a free version of guitar hero (PC-Mac only though)
Also, there is a free DDR program called "Stepmania" it's just the same as DDR, just that it's for PC, and it's free.
Also, in both of these you can add your own songs (and add the notes/steps for them yourself, or download them from fan sites.)
So far the music game genre has peaked with DDR (if you like dancing) and Guitar Hero 5 (if you like playing instruments). I don't think there's much left to do there.
I would just like to say that those who did not buy Elite Beat Agents have no soul. Sure most of the music sucked, but that game is ridiculously awesome. Those who liked Elite Beat Agents and/or Ouendan should check out osu! which is basically a fan made freeware version which lets you create your own beatmaps and share them with others.

Concerning new entries into the genre, I'm still waiting for Keyboard/Piano Hero featuring Chopin, Beethoven, Mozart, Schubert, and others. I surely can't be the only one that thinks it would be pretty cool =P
@SuperMustacheo Yes and no.. I mean yes it would be awesome but I think they would never give a full size keyboard... mor elike 10 keys max.. which would kill the sole purpose of having a piano simulation.
@SuperMustacheo Elite Beat Agent was indeed awesome. I did like most of the musics. They were intertaining and the game itself was sweet.
Elite Beat agents was pretty sweet. Loved it.

Was really into Rock Band and Guitar Hero... but have since fallen out of interest with the whole genre. Although I was thinking about it today and feeling the urge to pop in Rock Bank 2 just to try things out again.

I am not really sure what the genre needs to do to rope me back in. I Feel like I was really involved when it was a cultural phenomenon... my friends were having Rock Band nights... so I was playing at home to practice up. But now that pressure isn't there... so I don't play at home and therefore in general don't really play with friends.

So if the companies in the genre could figure out how to reintroduce that social pressure to get together and be awesome together... that is what would bring me back.
If rhythm games did anything, they at least expanded the general video game audience a great deal. Guitar Hero/Rock Band are like gateway drugs into the video game world. It was easy to convince your girlfriend/ other friends who just 'didn't play video game' to try it out and have some fun. Most may have never moved past these games, but at least they got a glimpse into why video games can be so much fun.

Also, even though I thought myself pretty musically knowledgeable prior to ever picking up a plastic guitar, I certainly heard a lot of the songs I love today for the first time by playing GH/RB. Some great classics that just skated under my radar, such as "Crazy on You", and some great newer songs like "Freya" have become some of my all time favorites. And now with all the DLC, which i never really got into much myself, there is a whole world of music just waiting to be experienced in a completely different way. Although playing the plastic instruments is quite distant from playing any of these songs on a real instrument, you definitly get a better understand of a song by playing it in one of these games, and end up hearing/appreciating things you never did before.

As for how to rejuvinate this type of game, thats a pretty tough thing. It used to be just get some better songs, get the master recordings, and I would eat it up. But now there is a huge list of songs avaliable, and I have to believe at some point that they will run out of songs that will excite me. I really like the Beatles:Rock Band idea, however some of the previous one-band only versions of this software featured bands which i thought really didn't merit an entire game. There are really few bands out there who would (Bealtes, U2?). The new Rock Band user-submitted store sound pretty interesting (the name is escaping me right now...), but I still don't think it will give the genre the spark it needs to rise to the top again. I believe it is destined to be a party relic, brought out every once in a while to relieve memories...
@col726 Well written, almost bursted into tears ;).

While I agree with most of your points, I think however that new songs can bring a lost title back to life. Rockband two didn't have much improvements. You basically do the "story" and unlock songs that you play with the same drumkit and guitar. Minors changes appears to be some graphic improvements, change in the story mode (so it doesnt feel too much like the original one) and they have to bring up one or two features unique to the sequel if they want it to get more customers than only followers.

And on the top of it, if they want them to purchase the whole kit (again) they need some hardware improvement (now it is wireless drums).

To sum it up, The game is never "new", they just try to punch your face hard enough to make you forget that it is, in fact, the same thing that your old game but they tweaked x or y things.

Let's take an example to reflect my story. If you played unreal tournament before - whatever version you've played, you-ve played them all, basically.
@Linked713 Agreed. See: Madden, NHL, NBA, Tony Hawk, WWE, etc. etc.

What i did notice about RB2 was that , I guess in the interested of appeal to the female/not hardcore videogame audience, they choose a very varied mix of songs. With GH1, besides the limited selection, they were all rock songs. It was targeted toward the hardcore gamer audience, more likely to drop $80 on a concept that no one knew would work or not. And I think that this targeted group (and i might be stereotyping here...) would approve of every song on GH1, because it closely resembled music they were already listening to. Many years and sales later, we wind up with Paramore, Panic and the Disco, and Alanis Morissette. Songs I'm not particularly juiced about, but it does give options to other people who are unfamiliar with the classic/modern rock scene.

However, basically to prove your point, I did see that a Queen rock pack is coming out soon, and that would definitely make me want to call up a few friends and play again!!!
I still enjoy RB/GH, but playing games to me is really about being a couch commando. Controller - check. Cheetos - Check. Guinness - double check!
First of all I wanna state that DJ hero is NOT made by the creators of Guitar Hero. It's created by the people that took over Guitar Hero after Harmonix members were no longer part of the team and that game is NOT anything like DJing. I mean how the hell do you put synth buttons on an LP?

Scratch really needs to be talked about because that game will put DJ hero to shame. Beatmania puts DJ Hero to shame. The game is about as crap as can be IMO.

/rant

I think there needs to be a House or Electornica game so that we can have DJ style stuff with actual GOOD songs rather than Nelly and Nas and Fiddycent.
@MakaiOokami ... I REALLY wanna put a "Cool Story" picture here. You don't like DJHero concept, ok so what? Guitar hero is a shame too. I mean... Single string? that is laughable.. Yet nobody care and people enjoy the game because it is a game after all. Thanks for sharing your obvious concern about DJHero NOT Being the real thing - We already know.

PS - Dance Dance Revolution is not dancing, still hella fun to play. See where im going?

PS2 - You can also bash on Rockband since it's created by a crew that ditched Guitar hero project and started it's own one.

Either way, That was a waste of time for you to reply this and for us to read.
@California292
I used to play stepmania and frets on fire. I played frets on fire with the guitar from guitar hero. @Linked713
I also bought 'In The Groove' (the version that came with 2 dance pads). I'm glad they lost in court because that game was so much a rip-off. Music games have been around for awhile. I know some people definitely don't know about 'Frequency' or its sequel 'Amplitude'. Even though thats alot of accessories to the games nowadays, I think they've grown stale. I agree with you and col726.
@Bonemane Roxar achieved to bring DDR to wertern people with western style. In fact, Roxar succeeded where Konami failed in term of localisation. Music and general looking of DDR was horrible. I mean Epileptic arrows and backgrounds with asian-themed songs.

I liked everything Roxar did more than DDR - Including custom songs you could play on the arcade machine. I remember playing Neomax (10 min) on expert there and even Pokemon song just to laugh.

I personally think it is a shame that they lost. Rockband and Guitar Hero world tour are... well... basically the same thing with different layout.. no? Drum Freak = Rock Band, Guitar Freak = Guitar Hero. I mean Konami could totally rule the world and at the same time, ruin the music game industry.
@Linked713

You're the one who doesn't know what he's talking about. If I remember correctly Red Octane was why Harmonix split off.

Furthermore Scratch The Ultimate DJ actually has a decent set up. As did Beatmania. Buttons do NOT GO ON THE RECORD your scratching.

Furthermore Rock Band you're playing chords, not a single string. It's just a basic version of chords. It's not like they put buttons you have to hold down on the strum bar. which would be the equivelant to what DJ Hero has.

Hell Rock Band 2 drums do a much better job at getting you used to real drumming. From what I've read online they support the Ion set better, which is a real drum set (albeit electronic one) and even the Rock Band 2 kit with the cymbal expansion helps to replicate the experience as well. The Guitar Hero 1 was a nice try but it's more like a jazz set up rather than a rock one.

But the major thing was I was not dissing the music genres. I just think that DJ Hero is getting a TON of undeserved press considering the fact that they only started the project after they aquired 7 Studios (that's their name) after they were cut from the Scratch the Ultimate DJ project. The owners of Scratch had to sue Activision to get the source code back.

1 uses Akai buttons, in proper locations, the other one has you pressing buttons on an LP. Which one sounds like it's going to ACTUALLY translate into some knowledge about how to DJ later on?

I did nothing bad to you but your condescending attitude towards me is going to hurt you once people read that I actually know this stuff better than you do. Yes I do not what Amplitude and Rez, are.

Also DDR isn't really dancing but Pump It Up does let you free style and works much better towards freestyling as once again being an all around superior experience to the over rated game that everyone knows about. DDR should have lost it's popularity when the superior Pump It Up came out, and people shouldn't be talking about how great DJ Hero is, but rather how much fun and how realistic Scratch the Ultimate DJ is.
@MakaiOokami I don't know for you, but I have reserved DJHero and I am really impatient to get it. I don't plan of being a DJ and I couldnt care less of how close to reality it is or not. Thing is I was pleased by the concept and whatever happens or who gets sued, if it is coming out, I am getting my copy and I will enjoy it as much as I can.
@Linked713

That was a much more respectful reply than the last one you sent. Thank you for that.

I will admit that I have a persona bias. I am boycotting any and all Activision games excluding Blizzard titles. Even without my boycott though, I don't think I would get DJ Hero. Some of the songs are great, but I'm boycotting the company because they don't respect their games enough.

If do implore you to look at some dev walkthroughs of Scratch the Ultimate DJ because I do think that whether you're wanting to gain DJing skills or not, it will be a more enjoyable experience, but I won't tell you, that you have to get it over DJ Hero. Maybe using 1 hand on the LP to press the buttons and scratch will be more enjoyable to you. To me personally that just sounds awkward.

Honestly though, I don't know if I'm getting either game. I like Scratch the Ultimate DJ but, unless they add some great songs or great DLC the tracklist may kill the game for me. At that stage I'd just have to stick with DJ Max Portable and miss out on the experience until I can import a Beatmania game or something.

Konami has made some great games in the past, however, their American version suck more often than not. The PS3 is region free so the only thing I have to worry about is that they release a good version in Japan.

If I never get a decent DJ game on console though, I'm sure I'll be fine with all the RPGs and Rock Band or Singstar DLC that comes out.

/ramble

I hope you enjoy your purchase when it comes out, it's just too much money to spend for you to not enjoy it.
@MakaiOokami Especially considering the limited edition is 200USD. One of the reasons qhy I am getting this one above all is because I know Activision wont let me down. DJHero will have DLC Content there is no doubt about it. Only thing I do not like is them Making a rock band game of lesser quality and call it "Band Hero". That's my point, but yeah not like someone is gonig to do anything about it ;)
@Linked713

Activision always lets me down. Guitar Hero 3 was a let down when they amped the dfificulty up so much that during a string of rapid strums you don't have time to get the pacing or rythm on it. Not just that but they put in plenty of hard songs, but just made the juding difficulty so high it wasn't even fun.

They were charging 2.50 for Guitar Hero 3 songs, which is just guitar and sometimes Bass while Rock Band was charging 2.00 and many times even 1.00 for their DLC for 4 instruments

They said they were going to add trophies to World Tour, but then backed down.

On top of that they didn't plan ahead and now you have to use a voucher code AND a reliscensing fee in order to import your songs from World Tour to Guitar Hero 5. On top of that' it's 35 songs out of 80 something. In Rock Band it was only like 5 songs they didn't get to get the rights to again. Plus if you did spend 2.50 on Guitar Hero 3 tracks they aren't compatible with any of the other games.

Rock Band Beatles was partitioned off because it was more of a tribute for the fans.

Plus the Activision Company President literally stated that he wanted to take the fun out of making games, and make it more machine like, he wants games to be more expensive, he doesn't think they cost enough, and I generally like games like Infamous over games like Prototype, they trashed Brutal Legend, and then tried to sue EA for trying to finish and release the game just so they had less competition.

Activision is nothing but a huge let down to me.

I'm not saying you should boycott Activision, but I just want you to know where I'm coming from when I say that Rock Band is a suiperior experience, I have over 200 songs, I have 6 drum pads, the 4 toms and the 2 cymbals, I have a wireless drum, I didn't like the drum set for Guitar Hero that I played during my breaks at work, the only thing that I like from Guitar Hero is the sturdiness of their controllers, my Rock Band 2 guitar Controller is broken in every way possible so I use Guitar Hero controllers instead for Guitar.

I tried liking Guitar Hero, but there isn't much to like for me.

I'm not trying to attack your likes. For Europeans and especially australians Harmonix have been jerks, and non Americans have every right to get Guitar Hero until Harmonix stops over charging, and releases world wide, properly, etc...

As far as the DJ games I lean to Scratch more than DJ Hero but I don't think either one has the experience I'm personally looking for.

I hope they get the DLC you want.
Guitar hero 3 was the first I tried and it made me hook with the genre. I don't know for you but I found it to be rather easy. I did get it for the wii so the DLC were not included with the lot - saddly. I think the hardest one was Through the fire and flame and I did manage to get it done several times until I felt confortable doing it and later, enjoying it.

The only thing I dislike about activision's music games in general is the frets being circles which is harder to time than bars but then again, I have the money and faith.
Haven't had a chance to play these games for a while, but where's EBA's sequel?
Eba's on wii ... mmh naah.. better on DS.
@MGN001 I doubt we'll see a sequel for it. The closest you'll get is importing Ouendan 2.
With no stepmania I risk losing my otakudom... I think it would be cool for KAZOO HERO!!! that would pwn. I wonder what extreme mode would be like...
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